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Joined on 24 dec 2005
Total posts: 208
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Practical Suggestions
dinsdag 18 december 2007 11:45
Although allied to the the 'English' thread, I want to start a new thread about what practical suggestions can be put forward to improve competitive dancing in Britain (not just England). The fairly recently launched Dance for England is a start. I don't know how eell its going as nothing ever seems to be mentioned.
What suggestions can you make that will get dancing mvoing forward. Could the EADA do more? How. What can the BDC do? What can EADA do on the BDC board? January see the change of rules meeting of the BDC.
Can we leave politics aside or this too ingrained?
Best wishes
Steve
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Joined on 29 okt 2006
Total posts: 192
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Re: Practical Suggestions
dinsdag 18 december 2007 12:02
Hi Steve,
I would love to see Britains Amateurs given the opportunity to teach, demonstrate or perform in shows etc without the fear of being penalised. The money they earn could make all the difference to thier competetive dance career. I have no idea how this can be achieved, but I truly think that it would be a step in the right direction .
Lets put the British couples on the same playing field as competitors from most other Countries. They are currently at such a disadvantage due to the majority of them holding down full time jobs to finance thier dancing .I realise that this is a wish rather than a suggestion .Does anyone have any suggestions on how to make this wish come true and achieve this goal ?
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Joined on 24 dec 2005
Total posts: 208
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Re: Practical Suggestions
dinsdag 18 december 2007 12:27
I agree with you totally. I don't won't to spout my own views (again). Instead I would like to hear from others here (or elsewhere) how we can achive that. Is there any way, EADA can put pressure on the BDC to relax its rules on teaching and demonstrating.
One idea I have is for local schools like mine to have a proper link with EADA, WADA etc. I am quite prepared to pay a club affiliate fee. This would give my school members a chance to get a foothold into the EADA structure. As a 'professional' (how I now hate that word), I obviously could not (at the moment at least) have any voting rights but my club members could even they are not currently registered competitors.
EADA could do with the money.
Please be forthcoming. All wishes are gratefully received but solutions to your wishes would be even better.
What do think of my suggestion Tango?
Regards
Steve
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Joined on 24 dec 2005
Total posts: 208
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Re: Practical Suggestions
dinsdag 18 december 2007 12:46
Just a quickie as I don't want to hog this thread. In case your wondering what good linking a club with EADA etc will do. This is my thinking
1. EADA etc gets more income
2. EADA etc increases its membership base
3. An increase in membership increases credibity
4. An increase in membership may help get bigger grants from Sport England etc
5. A bigger membership equates to a stronger mass movment
6. A stronger mass movement gives the organsation greater strength and purpose.
7. Greater strength and purpose can help push more easily for change.
8. Change can improve the situation and so help build for the future
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Joined on 29 okt 2006
Total posts: 192
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Re: Practical Suggestions
dinsdag 18 december 2007 16:57
Hi Steve,
Its a very good suggestion and most certainly could work ! EADA as with the other British Organisations would certainly benefit from additional income . This additional income could be used productively to benefit the dancers.
Who could be approached about this (or any other ) suggestion ?
Could you please tell me more about Sport England ?
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Joined on 28 jan 2003
Total posts: 128
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Re: Practical Suggestions
dinsdag 18 december 2007 21:27
EADA is the official governing body for Amatuer Dancers in England. One of the criteria for receiving funding from Sport England was that the governing body had to be run by amatuers for amatuers without any professional involvement and I suspect that the fact that EADA are technically controlled by the BDC may have contributed to the loss of funding from Sport England. I could be wrong but I believe that EADA no longer receive any grants or financial assistance from Sport England. So as they are officially the governing body for amatuers I believe that if EADA wished they could choose to break away from the BDC and adopt the rules and policies of the IDSF of whom they are the English Member. I have no doubt that this would cause absolute furore and the BDC could of course take various measures against EADA such as stopping their professionals from promoting or judging competitions for Amatuers in England or banning English Amatuers from the major Championships held under their rules such as The International & British Open. On the other hand then of course there would be nothing to stop EADA or even Amatuers from organising the competitions and using IDSF adjudicators!! So whilst it might not be a pleasant thought and would probably meet with very strong opposition, that is a option which I think could be taken by EADA if they so desired.
I think we have to remember that EADA is run by Amatuer dancers who give freely of their own time to do this. Reading the "job description" of the Chairman issued prior to the recent AGM and elections it would appear that this post alone involves a full time committment of some 40 hours a week. So technically EADA are expecting at least one person to carry out a full time job unpaid. Is this fair?? If some think that EADA are not doing enough or do not perform to our expectations then perhaps EADA are justified in claiming that this is because they are volunteers! This being the case are we expecting too much of them. Should the Association be run by paid staff with business experience rather than dancers?? If it were would the added time they would be able to dedicate be able to increase membership, income and funding?? Would the organisation be stronger and more able to meet the needs and demands of its members?
I don't have the answers but would like to hear everyone elses views on this!
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Joined on 29 okt 2006
Total posts: 192
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Re: Practical Suggestions
woensdag 19 december 2007 8:39
Thank you Elaine,
I was unaware that EADA is run by amateurs . Bless them for giving thier time , thats what I call commitment to dancing ! EADA may benefit from being run by paid staff as a business, however the current staff of EADA are doing it for the love of dancing and have the dancers best interests at heart. Would we want to loose that ? Could paying the existing staff a wage may be the answer ? I think its too much to ask of someone to work 40 hours a week unpaid. Maybe introducing someone with Business experience would be a good idea, but there is no replacement for genuine dance lovers working on behalf of the dancers.
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Joined on 24 dec 2005
Total posts: 208
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Re: Practical Suggestions
woensdag 19 december 2007 11:58
Hi Tango
Thanks for your support for my suggestion. From your reply though I take it that you don't live in Briatin. Is that right? If so, Elaine's reply will give you an idea of the frustration that she, other parents, amateur competitors and professionals like me have with the way dancing is organised here.
I don't want to reintroduce the WDC / IDSF debate (that's not the purpose of the thread) suffice to say that the WDC was (and maybe still is) modelled on the British Dance Council. It's for this reason why I am highly suspicious of the WDCs motives in creating the Amateur League. The BDC has controlled all amateur dancers whether social or competitor for too long and it's got to stop. I think it was Chunky-Monkey on another thread who put it very succinctly: "It is the only customer service where the customer is always wrong". Professionals may provide a service but the service users who pay my wages are treated with contempt. There not treated with contempt by me I hasten to add.
Hi Elaine. Great to read your postings again.
What is your gut feeling about my suggestion? Provided that we still have to keep the professional / amateur barrier (which to me is now a nonsense), my only ambition in all this is to see a structure made up of equal partners between amateurs and professionals. Given what you say about the funding situation, is there any way I as a service provider with my own club can link with your own side ie EADA etc?
I have a couple of ideas but whether they will get off the ground will depend on support from all sides. I've made one suggestion but there always different ways to skin a cat as they say (not that I've skinned a cat mind you). If someone can think of something that can get people actually supporting whoever they are then that'll be fantastic.
Incidentally, as an aside I've noticed a lot of viewers to the thread but only 3 of us (as yet) discussing it. I'm not sure what to make of that.
If you are from Britain and are seriously worried about the issue of how our sport social or competitive is being run then can I urge you to contribute. Perhaps that way, next year we will see the start of something new.
Remember - small changes can and do have big effects.
Best wishes
Steve
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Joined on 29 okt 2006
Total posts: 192
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Re: Practical Suggestions
woensdag 19 december 2007 16:34
Hi ,
I do live in Britain :) I am a parent of an Amateur (adult) dancer. As such I truly appreciate your frustration.
I second your concern about the lack of viewers contributing to this thread . Maybe is it for fear of being shot down in flames(as many of us have already encounted on different threads) . I encourage anyone with an interest in British dancing to show your support and offer suggestions etc .
I have never really involved myself in the political side of Dancesport however, I love dancing and can see that there are many distressing issues surrounding this wonderful sport at the moment . Therefore I am now going to delve deeper and learn more !
Steve , can you explain to me in more depth why you are suspicious of the WDC's Amateur league please?
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Joined on 24 dec 2005
Total posts: 208
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Re: Practical Suggestions
woensdag 19 december 2007 18:33
Hi Tango
In order to answer your question properly it is perhaps useful to give a bit of background from where I'm coming from. Incidentally, what I say is from my own perspective. Others here may take a different view. I respect that.
I've been involved in dancing for nearly 40 years. I have never really been involved in the politics of dancing but I've formulated my views from knowledge and experience. I started dancing as a teenager moving onto competition dancing and later becoming a teacher. In these early days, many young people danced - a lot different from today. I just got on with it never taking much notice of what was going on. I also helped out at competition providing the music for a number of local events.
By about 1990, I sensed things had changed, particularly in competition dancing. (I had by then been out of it for about 4 years studying for a degree). I decided to carry a bit of research and came to the conclusion that what was needed was a proper plan to get more youngsters involved. It was at this point that I started to come up against the many brick walls that are constantly thrown up when anyone suggests that we need to change anything. I was accused by people who I had known for years as trying to either feather my own nest or was on some ego trip. To say I was shocked is an understatement. I didn't really understand why. As a professional teacher I expected that other teachers making their living out of teaching dancing would welcome new ideas to get new people involved. But know. The attitude ranged from "we don't need to get involved in any new associations or work together" to "people have always danced. It's just a blip." Well if it is a blip the been a very long blip - some 20 years by my reckoning.
In the intervening years I decided to forget it and just get on with own business. Many things including, car crashes and having a family became my focus. But at the back of my mind, I was still passionate about trying to improve participation in our wonderful sport.
Since then I started to think why teachers societies, the BDC, BDF and other bodies wouldn't want to see dancing in Britain develop. Then it hit me. I reaslised, that these bodies weren't really interested in British dancing at all. They didn't need British dancers per se to make money. Indeed, British dancers wouldn't pay the money they could get from dancers overseas. My own former coach was one of many top coaches travelling abroad. In my early days getting a lesson was difficult enough because of the many British couples she taught. When most of her time was going abroad I can imagine it was even more difficult. I even heard stories when the Japanese came over for lessons, regular British dancers were dropped (temporarily of course).
I began to mistrust my own profession. In the mean time the numbers competing kept dropping and dropping. But nothing was being done about it.
At about this time I also realised I among many other teachers of my generation were getting older. Those prior to me were dying but there were very few new teachers coming up behind. What was the teaching societies doing about it? Absolutely nothing. And tthey are still doing nothing. With SCD hitting the TV screens many schools are having a big influx into social dance classes but there is a shortage of teacher and nothing is being done about it.
I started to ask questions such why can't we allow amateurs to take a test to teach say beginners. They can't do that. Only professionals can teach. It's taking income away from the professional.
As you are no doubt aware that the BDC and EADA came up a coaching scheme but for all intents and purposes this is so restricted as to make it worthless. Even if it was a good scheme, it wouldn't dent the shortage.
Over the last 15 years many political changes took place. The IDSF became the new name for the amateurs worldwide. They persued a different agenda from the equivalent professional body (now called WDC). There was a bit of jealousy and mistrust going on - from the WDC end mainly but not exclusively. The 2 bodies set up an agreement to work together but for whatever reason it didn't work out. The IDSF in the meantime persued the Olympic objective much to the anger of the WDC who believed that only their professional members should represent dancing if we ever became part of the Olympics. I firmly believe it is missed opportunity by the WDC that is the basis of todays international problems.
As you will from my point of view it is my fellow professional in particular the teaching societies in Britain who have scuppered any attempt to improve and develop social and competitive dancing both here and abroad.
I also feel throughout my career, the profession as a body believed that amateurs are simply a meal ticket to be used in order to maintain the status quo - in short to maintain their superior position and the main controllers.
In this country, EADA is considered (by sporting organisations) as the governin body. The BDC is in reality a body that represents professionals. Yet, the rules appertaining to amateur (as well as professional) competition dancing in the UK is controlled by the BDC. This to me is an unfair position. EADA can make as many rules for itself but even something as relatively trivial as dress code had to go to the BDC for consideration. EADA members have no rights at all. They are simply a meal ticket fo dance teachers.
I 'm soryy for the length of this but I hope now why I am mistrusting of my profession. You might be wondering why as a pro I should not just join them. The answer is twofold. I believe in fairness and justice. I believe in treating people (customers) decently. They are after all paying me to teach them. But, I also feel passionate in my sport and wanting to see the dancing in Britain prosper and the people who are blocking any chance for to happen is my soc called profession.
I hope you understand everything here. I realise it's rather long.
Best wishes
Steve
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